Re: [SystemSafety] Fault, Failure and Reliability Again (short)

Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2015 17:48:35 +0100

IEC 61508 doesn't, yet. There are strong efforts done to keep the two issues separated. Probably for legal and liability issues.

IMHO the two subject intersect (not tp say collide), one being a 2 dimension matrix (probability x consequence), the second one a 3 dimension (probability x consequence x attacker) as modelled by the NSA.

I have strong doubts, that technically, if you still can address when subject by the lines (safety functions) and another one by the columns (firewalls, conduits, zones, etc...) there will be nothing to do (and standardise) at the intersection...

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2015 2:02 PM
To: systemsafety_at_xxxxxx Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Fault, Failure and Reliability Again (short)

Is this just a terminology issue? It seems to me that it has a profound effect on a safety case if you accept that the probability of catastrophic failure depends mostly on how much someone wants to cause that failure, rather than on how you developed the system.

For example, does IEC 61508 have anything to say about the insider threat?


On 04/03/2015 12:39, Peter Bernard Ladkin wrote:
> On 2015-03-04 13:23 , Martyn Thomas wrote:
>> Is there a need to update IEC 61508 to take account of this interaction?
> Yes.
>> If so, is there a plan to do so?
> Yes.
> An informal working group of the IEC MT will be looking at it and I am leading the WG.
> The only current member of the WG is my PhD student Chris Goeker, who
> is currently working on the concept-rationalisation project SmartTerms
> which we are in with the IVA at the
> Technical University of Brunswick (TU-BS) and the PTB (the German equivalent to the National Physical Laboratory).
> Current funding only allows SmartTerms to look at new areas of
> electrotechnology, e.g., "Smart Grid", "Smart Cities", "Smart House
> and Building", "Electro-Mobility" (electric road vehicles) and potentially Industrie 4.0 (robotics for factory production lines).
> My group with TU-BS IVA and DKE have a joint project proposal in to
> the German Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy (BMWi) to
> attend to this task for Functional Safety and Security, using the
> SmartTerms technology, and I imagine the work on behalf of the German delegation to the IEC MT would largely be done here. The funding isn't by any means assured.
> Prof. Peter Bernard Ladkin, Faculty of Technology, University of
> Bielefeld, 33594 Bielefeld, Germany Je suis Charlie
> Tel+msg +49 (0)521 880 7319
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> systemsafety_at_xxxxxx >

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