Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems from andy_at_xxxxxx <style type="text/css"> /*<![CDATA[*/ /* To be incorporated in the main stylesheet, don't code it in hypermail! */ body {color: black; background: #ffffff} dfn {font-weight: bold;} pre { background-color:inherit;} .head { border-bottom:1px solid black;} .foot { border-top:1px solid black;} th {font-style:italic;} table { margin-left:2em;}map ul {list-style:none;} #mid { font-size:0.9em;} #received { float:right;} address { font-style:inherit ;} /*]]>*/ .quotelev1 {color : #990099} .quotelev2 {color : #ff7700} .quotelev3 {color : #007799} .quotelev4 {color : #95c500} .period {font-weight: bold} </style> </head> <body> <div class="head"> <h1>Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems</h1> <map id="navbar" name="navbar"> <ul class="links"> <li> <dfn>This message</dfn>: [ <a href="#start1698" name="options1" id="options1" tabindex="1">Message body</a> ] [ More options (<a href="#options2">top</a>, <a href="#options3">bottom</a>) ] </li> <li> <dfn>Related messages</dfn>: [ <a href="1699.htm" accesskey="d" title="M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"">Next message</a> ] [ <a href="1697.htm" title="M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"">Previous message</a> ] [ <a href="1684.htm" title="M Mencke: "[SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"">Maybe in reply to</a> ] [ <a href="1699.htm" accesskey="t" title="M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"">Next in thread</a> ] [ <a href="#replies">Replies</a> ] </li> </ul> </map> <ul class="links"> <li><a name="options2" id="options2"></a><dfn>Contemporary messages sorted</dfn>: [ <a href="date.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary messages by date">by date</a> ] [ <a href="index.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary discussion threads">by thread</a> ] [ <a href="subject.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary messages by subject">by subject</a> ] [ <a href="author.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary messages by author">by author</a> ]</li> </ul> </div> <div class="mail"> <address class="headers"> <span id="from"> <dfn>From</dfn>: < > </span><br /> <span id="date"><dfn>Date</dfn>: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 11:40:48 -0400 (EDT)</span><br /> </address> <br /> <br> Having relocated from the UK to Canada a few years ago, I regularly experience the disconnects between (English and Canadian English), (Canadian English and Canadian French) AND (Canadian French and French)! <p> RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE) <bertrand.ricque_at_xxxxxx <br> <i class="quotelev1">> Hard to achieve between french and english !</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Well known example: Israel will evacuate occupied territories.</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> More funny, the IEC 61508 standard itself. Just look how "performance test" and</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> "performance" is translated into French all along the standard. If you feel somewhat</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> depressed, read it, and you will feel much better after !</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Bertrand Ricque</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Program Manager</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Optronics and Defence Division</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Sights Program</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Bertrand.ricque_at_xxxxxx <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> -----Original Message-----</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> On Behalf Of andy_at_xxxxxx <i class="quotelev1">> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 5:19 PM</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> To: systemsafety_at_xxxxxx <i class="quotelev1">> Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> In a single language case, you need the assurance that the natural language conveys</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> the desired meaning.</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> In the dual-language case, you need the assurance that each natural language conveys</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> the desired meaning. Should there be an additional consideration to ensure consistency</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> of the two languages, i.e. if both were translated to a third language they would</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> result in the same meaning.</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Andy</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> </i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> Martyn Thomas <martyn_at_xxxxxx <i class="quotelev2">> > Why is this different from the single language case? In either</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > situation, do you not need assurance that the natural language conveys</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > the desired meaning to the relevant humans?</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> ></i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > Martyn</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> ></i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > On 27/04/2015 15:19, M Mencke wrote:</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > Or to put things simply: Imagine you are developing a product in</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > England for a client in "anywhere" (Russia, France, China, anywhere)</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > and this client wants the system to be usable by human operators</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > both in English and in the native language of the country. How do</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > you deal with the Safety issues of the translation of the HMI? How</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > is this usually done? Is there a standard/accepted way?</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > ></i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > Regards,</i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > ></i><br> <i class="quotelev3">> > > Myriam.</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> ></i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > _______________________________________________</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > The System Safety Mailing List</i><br> <i class="quotelev2">> > systemsafety_at_xxxxxx <i class="quotelev1">> #</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> " Ce courriel et les documents qui lui sont joints peuvent contenir des informations</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> confidentielles, être soumis aux règlementations relatives au contrôle des exportations</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> ou ayant un caractère privé. S'ils ne vous sont pas destinés, nous vous signalons</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> qu'il est strictement interdit de les divulguer, de les reproduire ou d'en utiliser</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> de quelque manière que ce soit le contenu. 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If you</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> have received this e-mail in error, please advise the sender immediately and delete</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> this e-mail and all attached documents from your computer system."</i><br> <i class="quotelev1">> #</i><br> <br /> <hr> <br> The System Safety Mailing List <br> systemsafety_at_xxxxxx <span id="received"><dfn>Received on</dfn> Mon Apr 27 2015 - 17:40:56 CEST</span> </div> <div class="foot"> <map id="navbarfoot" name="navbarfoot" title="Related messages"> <ul class="links"> <li><dfn>This message</dfn>: [ <a href="#start1698">Message body</a> ]</li> <li><dfn>Next message</dfn>: <a href="1699.htm" title="Next message in the list">M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"</a></li> <li><dfn>Previous message</dfn>: <a href="1697.htm" title="Previous message in the list">M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"</a></li> <li><dfn>Maybe in reply to</dfn>: <a href="1684.htm" title="Message to which this message replies">M Mencke: "[SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"</a></li> <li><dfn>Next in thread</dfn>: <a href="1699.htm" title="Next message in this discussion thread">M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"</a></li> <li><a name="replies" id="replies"></a> <dfn>Reply</dfn>: <a href="1699.htm" title="Message sent in reply to this message">M Mencke: "Re: [SystemSafety] Language issues, control systems"</a></li> </ul> <ul class="links"> <li><a name="options3" id="options3"></a><dfn>Contemporary messages sorted</dfn>: [ <a href="date.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary messages by date">by date</a> ] [ <a href="index.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary discussion threads">by thread</a> ] [ <a href="subject.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary messages by subject">by subject</a> ] [ <a href="author.htm#msg1698" title="Contemporary messages by author">by author</a> ]</li> </ul> </map> </div> <p><small><em> This archive was generated by <a href="http://www.hypermail-project.org/">hypermail 2.3.0</a> : Tue Feb 19 2019 - 13:17:06 CET </em></small></p> </body> </html>