Re: [SystemSafety] Fwd: Re: Chicago controller halts Delta jet's near-miss....

From: Matthew Squair < >
Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2015 19:00:24 +1000

There is also the potential for differences between military ATC and civilian ATC. I recall one incident in UK airspace that occurred due to such procedural differences, although after the event the procedures were realigned in the UK.

The soft system interfaces and cultural boundaries can be just as important as harder technical issues.

Matthew Squair

MIEAust, CPEng
Mob: +61 488770655
Email; Mattsquair_at_xxxxxx

On 22 Jun 2015, at 4:25 pm, Bernd Sieker <sieker_at_xxxxxx


Hash: SHA512

On 22.06.2015 07:49, Peter Bernard Ladkin wrote:

  1. ICAO phraseology and US FAA phraseology are by no means

identical, although they are similar. I don't seem to have my hand

on the FAA phraseology handbooks at present, so I can't check.


At a busy airport, I would have expected ATC: "[call sign] Position

and hold RWY XZ" for both

This is one particular phrase where the FAA has very recently (last year?) adopted the ICAO variant "Line up and wait".


It is important to note that cognitive situations like this happen

all the time, but almost all of them do not evolve dangerously such

as this incident. They are also very hard to investigate if they

do. It is difficult to establish with any reliability who

understood what when, because people's hindsight into their

historical cognitive state is not very reliable.

What would probably have helped somewhat were the CVRs, but since the Delta flight left within half an hour, it seems that that is gone.

SouthWest waited for a replacement aircraft, so do we know if it was a high-speed abort, which perhaps required some maintenance checks to be performed?


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