Re: [SystemSafety] Integrity definition

From: RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE) < >
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2016 08:38:44 +0000


Thank you for this material. I am afraid it goes with integrity as with levels of rigour in engineering (and in 61508). Looking at the issue bottom-up, it seems very difficult to justify any loose approach because of a low level of requirement. Trying to aggregate technical “contributors” to integrity raises only, topic per topic, a discussion on a what is not sufficient, and what could potentially be overspecification…

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82
Bertrand.ricque_at_xxxxxx

From: Les Chambers [mailto:les_at_xxxxxx Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 12:21 AM
To: RICQUE Bertrand (SAGEM DEFENSE SECURITE); systemsafety_at_xxxxxx Subject: RE: [SystemSafety] Integrity definition

Bertrand
The answer is here: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/integrity/ The meta answer is here (composing a "good" definition): http://www.chambers.com.au/glossary_index.php.

I think integrity is best expressed with a class hierarchy as it is used in many different contexts: to express the quality of an object, concept, person or place. The superclass is likely to have properties such as: moral, whole, entire, intact, pure, free of corruption. Most super classes are abstract, you therefore can't instantiate them (Read: apply them to a practical situation - this is probably why we all struggle with our spirituality). You will find your answer further down the tree in one of the object subclasses. Something to do with honesty: that is, making a commitment and delivering on same. This of course raises the issue of the integrity of the commitment, so there is recursion involved. This is why we humans find the concept slippery and don't often practice it.

Like you I've never seen a satisfactory definition of integrity in the engineering context. It's about time we created one. I'd encourage the list to ask the poets and the philosophers and project their wisdom onto our domain. Let us not follow the ancient masters let us seek what they sought and find something new.

Good luck.

Les

From: systemsafety [mailto:systemsafety-bounces_at_xxxxxx Sent: Monday, March 14, 2016 10:08 PM
Subject: [SystemSafety] Integrity definition

I am looking for a definition of “integrity” and/or “safety integrity”, preferably standardised (but I didn’t found anything satisfactorily, in particular in 61508). This definition should allow to compare objects in order to decide which one has more “integrity” than the other.

Bertrand Ricque
Program Manager
Optronics and Defence Division
Sights Program
Mob : +33 6 87 47 84 64
Tel : +33 1 58 11 96 82

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