Re: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

From: Michael J. Pont < >
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:13:32 +0100


I know what you mean.

Overall, I think this is a great list (and I think that PBL deserves a medal for the work he does on it).

I have learned to accept that some people on this list (and some of the most vocal) seem incapable of accepting that any system can be created without the use of formal methods (and I've been labelled "incompetent" by one vocal member of the list for daring to question this orthodoxy). Such attitudes suggest to me that some people need to get out more.

In terms of the most recent discussion (that gave rise to your comment), "software reliability" doesn't make sense to me as a label (because the software does not change / wear out). I now translate this phase as "software robustness" or similar and then the world makes a little more sense.

Overall, people on this list sometimes have a tendency to argue their positions forcefully and directly. I don't think that anyone has suffered too much from this. However, I suspect that more people would contribute if they didn't feel that they may be shot down for saying the wrong thing.

Simply my take (I'm sure that others will have a different view ...).


Michael J. Pont
SafeTTy Systems Ltd.

-----Original Message-----
From: systemsafety
[mailto:systemsafety-bounces_at_xxxxxx Ross Hannan - Sigma
Sent: 24 April 2016 00:20
To: 'Peter Bernard Ladkin' <ladkin_at_xxxxxx List' <systemsafety_at_xxxxxx Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

I really don't understand why this list needs to degrade in to abuse on a regular basis and why certain members of this list seem to see others as fodder for these abusive attacks.

Ross Hannan
Some Sort of Engineer

-----Original Message-----
From: systemsafety
[mailto:systemsafety-bounces_at_xxxxxx Peter Bernard Ladkin
Sent: 23 April 2016 19:27
To: The System Safety List
Subject: Re: [SystemSafety] Does "reliable" mean "safe" and or "secure" or neither?

On 2016-04-23 19:43 , Nick Tudor wrote:
> DO-178C

In the absence of a complete sentence, let me suggest one.

It's fine for some industry consortium to find it has no use for a specific concept. RTCA likely has no use for the notion of a cup of tea, either (BS6008). But that doesn't mean it makes any sense to argue that there isn't any such thing as a cup of tea.

PBL Prof. Peter Bernard Ladkin, Faculty of Technology, University of Bielefeld, 33594 Bielefeld, Germany Je suis Charlie Tel+msg +49 (0)521 880 7319

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systemsafety_at_xxxxxx Received on Sun Apr 24 2016 - 11:14:47 CEST

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